Author Topic: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!  (Read 740 times)

David Samborsky

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Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« on: October 20, 2020, 07:46:57 AM »
This story is about one year old and wasn't apparent to me at the time until later when someone had alerted me to it. This is just another one of the many crap situations I have had to deal with since I started this project. In fact I could easily write a book about all of the crap situations and experiences I have had to deal with and the irony is that they have all originated from here within Australia :(

Check it out !! Slap bang right in the middle of our pre-order period around August 2019 last year, DEQX along with their mates at stereonet all of a sudden decided to offer a 21st anniversary sale !!

What a coincidence or more likely a conspiracy !! :(



I mean what commercial organization celebrates a 21st anniversary whilst at the same time offering a significant discount on a competing product that they have never offered before ?? Same old story wheeled out once again about an old sampling keyboard that has been flogged to death !! A bit like the old Hills Hoist !! Probably just a rouse to justify offering a discount to try and steal customers away from us at a critical time :(

20th anniversary I could understand but 21st anniversary ?? What commercial vendors do 21st anniversaries ?? Maybe I have lived a sheltered life but why not a 22nd anniversary during Covid-19 when things are much quieter ? Makes much more sense  but not a peep out of them. Wonder what they will do for a 25th anniversary or maybe they will wait for my next pre-order ? That should be interesting. My guess is that with the same old stagnating DSP hardware it won't belong before the product they are flogging is relegated to the same status as their old keyboard. ;)

However, jokes aside, don't be fooled by all of the hype. What they didn't tell you in the sales blurb and what you won't read in their lame reviews is that DEQX is truly a lightweight DSP platform and its DSP technology is archaic from the mid 90's. I mean what can you possibly achieve with two 66MHz DSP's each capable of a meager 687 multiply accumulates (taps) per sample at 96KHz - and that is the DSP doing nothing else ? In fact the original DEQX had only one DSP and ran at 48kHz before they doubled the sampling rate and gave it a lick of paint and dressed it up in a high-end enclosure :D LOL By the time you take away the resources used to implement the high slope linear phase crossover filters, time delays and parametric room EQ there isn't really much meat left on the bone to do anything else useful in terms of convolution filtering or even FFT's !! The frequency resolution must be terrible. In fact click here to checkout the comparison between the UP and the DEQX to see why DEQX is a dinosaur from the past ;)

Also don't be fooled by the so called group delay correction sounding "so much better".  It's easy to create an FIR filter that apparently sounds different or better. Just take a unit impulse and increase its magnitude by 2 or more dB and all of a sudden - wallah you have a level increase masquerading as an FIR filter !! And when you do the A-B comparison doesn't the sound-stage sound so much bigger and the instruments sound so much more life like ?? However with on-axis correction what you gain on the swings you could easily lose on the round-abouts with more sophisticated correction filters that DEQX can generate.  As Grim Audio pointed out in their excellent paper on speakers  is that it is easy to correct the response on-axis but it is what happens off-axis that things can get totally screwed-up. Unless you have your head stuck in a vice there is no free lunch here. Also how can you guarantee the so called close mic placement mimics the far-field acoustic response ? Test it with a square wave outside in a football field or in an an-echoic chamber and see what happens ;) I can almost guarantee it does not and most people will never see the true result. What they will see are the canned before and after responses which have little or no bearing to the practical in-room response. In fact John Dunlavy used to test 11 feet away where the drivers would integrate correctly but they were fairly big speakers using first order crossovers. Now DEQX would try and optimize the speaker at 1 meter away :( Things are much more complicated in a multi-way non coincident speaker system than DEQX would like you to know and it makes much more sense to use this in a very large auditorium or in a pro-audio environment than in a small room. The only issue is they know that most people don't own an an-echoic chamber or live near a footy field to really verify the results.  Also what effect does the room have in screwing up the speaker anyway ? So much for all of the near field group-delay correction !! You may end up with something worse now that the off-axis response has been compromised :(

And lastly if DEQX was so good then the owner of stereonet would still be using one in his stereo system today. He doesn't and sold it long ago !! (Edit - And yet the owner of stereonet threatened me with legal action if I did not withdraw this comment - why ??)

And yes we can do all of this with the UP and even more with the UP+ using external DSP capability from PC hardware. We give the user plenty of rope to swing on but that rope can easily be used to hang yourself with !!

cheers




« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 05:07:23 AM by David Samborsky »
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MichaelH

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2020, 08:34:33 AM »
They have to sell it that cheap as it is a very old piece of crap and that is all its worth. This would explain why the Kyron Audio room at RMAF in 2018 sounded so bad. Its run by DEQX.

No one in their right mind would buy that. And to do a 4 way active you need 2 of them.

Its no conspiracy theory there is collusion afoot. As we have seen before.

That has always been the trouble with the Australian HIFI scene. Pit one against the other while the imports get away scott free.

Fortunately there is no comparison between the 2 products.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 12:48:04 AM by David Samborsky »

David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2020, 09:17:44 AM »
Well what can I say. I guess I didn't pay my protection money to stereonet and this is the result :(

But jokes aside, this sounds like a case of anti-competitive behaviour. I wonder if the ACCC would be interested in looking into this because it is not the first time this has happened to me.

Not only that, there was a flurry of DEQX users on my diyaudio page that I had never seen before at the time of the pre-order putting a negative slant on my product :(

Essentially what this does is send the industry back 20 years because it is an attempt at stifling or suppressing a startup whilst promoting and favouring a vendor that sells outdated technology !

I think it comes under this category.

https://www.accc.gov.au/business/anti-competitive-behaviour/anti-competitive-conduct

Quote
Anti-competitive conduct

Section 45 of the Competition and Consumer Act prohibits contracts, arrangements, understandings or concerted practices that have the purpose, effect or likely effect of substantially lessening competition in a market, even if that conduct does not meet the stricter definitions of other anti-competitive conduct such as cartels. A number of factors are considered by the courts to reach a decision:

https://www.accc.gov.au/business/anti-competitive-behaviour/misuse-of-market-power

Quote
Misuse of market power

A business with a substantial degree of power in a market is not allowed to engage in conduct that has the purpose, effect or likely effect of substantially lessening competition in a market. This behaviour is referred to as ‘misuse of market power’. It is not illegal to have, or to seek to obtain market power by offering the best products and services.





« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 12:30:33 AM by David Samborsky »
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MichaelH

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 08:19:32 AM »
I think you should offer the owner of stereonet the right to come on this forum and debate your post above. I think he will be a no show and will use his usual threats of legal action against anything he doesn't like as DEFAMATORY. There is no way he will show up where he has no control over what is posted. He will probably say this is defamatory.

I know posts wont be deleted or edited here and that would frighten the hell out him.

The offer should also be open to DEQX for that matter. I'd love to see DEQX come on here, that would be neat. Lets have a shoot out UP v DEQX. The UP test figures are already on here for all to see. There isn't a manufacturer that posts test results to the extent that Analog Precision have. You have to go to secondary sites like audiosciencereview.com to get proper test figures. Kudos to AP for having the balls to do this, nothing to hide here. SO lets put DEQX on the bench and do some real number crunching and see where they end up, somewhere near miniDSP I suspect which only costs 80 bucks. But unless they show up to the party anything is purely conjecture.


David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2020, 01:27:07 PM »
Anyway the offer is still open to Mr Rushton to come on here to defend himself instead of threatening me with lawyers :(
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 01:40:09 AM by David Samborsky »
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David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2020, 12:21:12 AM »
What the owner of Stereonet really thinks about diyers and boutique manufacturers such as myself whilst giving special privileges to certain other boutique manufacturers. How on earth do you ever gain traction in Australia when people have such bad attitudes here and try and shoot you down before you have even had a chance to get off the ground. "Aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi" I think not :(






« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 03:49:31 AM by David Samborsky »
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MichaelH

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2020, 06:02:59 AM »
What the owner of Stereonet really thinks about diyers and boutique manufacturers such as myself whilst giving special privileges to certain other boutique manufacturers. How on earth do you ever gain traction in Australia when people have such bad attitudes here and try and shoot you down before you have even had a chance to get off the ground. "Aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi" I think not :(



Thats hilarious. I have never seen a review on that website that didn't have some of the advertising blurb attached to it. John Laws all over again.

David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2020, 11:00:58 PM »

Thats hilarious. I have never seen a review on that website that didn't have some of the advertising blurb attached to it. John Laws all over again.

And miraculously nearly every review ends with a recommended buy !!

Imagine reviewing a power amp without at least measuring its power. There is only so much you can say about its sound stage as though this is inexplicably defined by the amplifier alone and nothing else in the chain. :D LOL
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 11:03:55 PM by David Samborsky »
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David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2020, 07:46:51 AM »
What Mr Rushton really thinks about me and my efforts from a PM I had with him before he blocked me access to the PM system on his forum !!



Wrong Mr Rushton. Three sponsors on your forum all resell Trinnov !! No doubt you got a good deal from them but of course nobody will ever know due to lack of transparency !!

And yes it is true I got my Engineering qualifications from RMIT and have earned my stripes and have come up with this product single handedly against all odds and on my own, and with no help from anyone in the industry here - especially you or your cronies. What have you done for the local industry in Australia Mr Rushton,  except to profit from playing one local off against another and in some cases sending them to the wall just like you attempted to do to me !!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 03:06:30 AM by David Samborsky »
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MichaelH

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2020, 02:31:25 AM »
Not a conspiracy theory at all.

Those forum donors will all come to their collective senses one day and see that there is very little return on their investment when all the moderators plug is Elektra and the website continually plugs Harmon. I already see some are not renewing and are no longer represented in the sponsors list. Imagine being OAD or Hulgich and paying all that money only to see the moderators chime in at any opportunity to plug Elektra or some other speaker. Don't take my word for it, I have plenty of screen shots (and emails, PM's) to prove it and if you go looking for yourself you will see. I myself was offered Elektra at a substantial discount from what was being sold in shops when I was thinking about buying Holton. I still have the email.

I believe there is a new website starting up soon that is not connected in any way to any manufacturer. I have been told that membership will be free. It will also host proper in depth technical reviews including test bench measurements of equipment being offered by the members/shops., similar to Audio Science Review. ALL FOR FREE. Imagine that, not having to compete with a forum of moderators all biased towards equipment that they own at your expense.


« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 03:58:19 AM by MichaelH »

David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2020, 05:27:10 AM »
Psychopaths or sociopaths usually behave in this way because they lack empathy and that's why they think it is perfectly normal to keep doing what they do and to screw other people over. They even regard themselves as "entrepreneurs" in order to justify their own nefarious behaviour. :(

The important message to Mr Rushton is don't hatch up plans to steal prospective customers from a start-up and then later accuse them of not being able to get the thing to market. It is the height of hypocrisy to do this all because you want to make a quick buck out of it and enrich yourself at other peoples expense. :( A bit like entering a one legged man into a butt kicking competition and then going around and telling everyone that he has no hope of winning. Seems to be how things work around stereonet  :( Just stick to writing garbage about cables and electronic equipment you know absolutely nothing about and don't look here at what I am doing. This is not for you or your crony moderators  !! Just stick to your Harman handouts or whatever little you paid for it all. Better still go back to school and learn something about the equipment you are dealing with.

And note the number of views this thread has had which is a bit of a silver lining in the world of stereonet censorship. ;)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 03:12:19 AM by David Samborsky »
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David Samborsky

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Re: Unusual timing for DEQX anniversary sale !!
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2020, 04:44:16 AM »
Not a conspiracy theory at all.

Those forum donors will all come to their collective senses one day and see that there is very little return on their investment when all the moderators plug is Elektra and the website continually plugs Harmon. I already see some are not renewing and are no longer represented in the sponsors list. Imagine being OAD or Hulgich and paying all that money only to see the moderators chime in at any opportunity to plug Elektra or some other speaker. Don't take my word for it, I have plenty of screen shots (and emails, PM's) to prove it and if you go looking for yourself you will see. I myself was offered Elektra at a substantial discount from what was being sold in shops when I was thinking about buying Holton. I still have the email.

I believe there is a new website starting up soon that is not connected in any way to any manufacturer. I have been told that membership will be free. It will also host proper in depth technical reviews including test bench measurements of equipment being offered by the members/shops., similar to Audio Science Review. ALL FOR FREE. Imagine that, not having to compete with a forum of moderators all biased towards equipment that they own at your expense.

Yes and you got banned for reporting it and the only thing that happened was those crooked moderators who were involved are still there today and now just keep spruiking the same brand of amplifier at every chance they get !! And until recently I had not seen that PM. What a shocker to see something like that and how stereonet got away with it because nobody did anything about it at the time. Had I been the particular sponsor in question I would have been seeking legal advice and suing that bastard that runs stereonet to allow this to happen. The admin did nothing in the end except close down the forum for a few hours and then clean out the forum for any incriminating evidence. After that, the unsolicited PM's were replaced with spruiking the same amplifier by the same moderators at any chance they get so nothing really changed. The alleged amplifier vendor who gets a free ride is not even a payed up sponsor on the forum so go figure how this nefarious behaviour is allowed to continue :(

This same thing also happened to a local speaker manufacturer who risked his whole house to invest in plant and equipment only to have those promises to buy from him totally broken in favour of another local speaker manufacturer who got the sales. He went bankrupt in the end and lost his house and marriage in the process :( This thing where people waste your time and money and then turn their backs on you is quite a common theme here in Australia with the people in the industry. It happened to me too so I know it goes on. The problem is nobody is willing to speak out and seek proper legal advice which in hindsight they would have had a pretty good case so instead the culprits get away with it only to do it all again :(

Why would you want to be a sponsor of stereonet and pay 2K a year to have tiny bit of forum space with so many restrictions and at the same time having to deal with this crap ?? Even if you are a payed up sponsor you are not immune to being undermined by another sponsor or in that other example someone who is not even a sponsor !!

This forum software here is basically freeware and the server space costs me the bare minimum. Why would I pay Mr Rushton 2k a year for a tiny bit of forum space with so many restrictions ?? As soon as you stop paying him your forum disappears along with all of the posts !! They are not even available as an archive which is why most new vendors only last a year and never renew their sponsorship because it is a complete waste of money and time for the same reason that nobody ever discusses the UP on stereonet. Not only that the stereonet owner doesn't even support or own any locally made equipment of any substance. Not one bit of gear he owns is locally made and yet he has got some special deal at his show for the locals. Put them in a pint sized room and hope they don't realized they are being ripped off big time :(

Do yourself a favour and look elsewhere other than stereonet.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 05:16:09 AM by David Samborsky »
The home of the Ultimate-Preamplifier and Ultimate-Amplifier ! https://www.analog-precision.com/